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[–] 4 pts

Harriman seeks to avoid government ownership of the Moon. As it passes directly overhead only in a narrow band north and south of the equator, he uses a legal principle that states that property rights extend to infinity above a land parcel. On that basis, Mexico, Central and parts of South America, and other countries in those latitudes around the world, have a claim on the Moon. The United States also has a claim due to Florida and Texas. By arranging for many countries to assert their rights Harriman persuades the United Nations to, as a compromise, assign management of the Moon to his company.

"The Man Who Sold The Moon" written by Robert H. Heinlein written in 1949.

[–] 0 pt

Harriman seeks to avoid government ownership of the Moon. As it passes directly overhead only in a narrow band north and south of the equator, he uses a legal principle that states that property rights extend to infinity above a land parcel. On that basis, Mexico, Central and parts of South America, and other countries in those latitudes around the world, have a claim on the Moon. The United States also has a claim due to Florida and Texas. By arranging for many countries to assert their rights Harriman persuades the United Nations to, as a compromise, assign management of the Moon to his company.

This does not have any basis in legal fact. It's made up nonsense.

[–] 1 pt
[–] 0 pt (edited )

You should probably read the text you are quoting a little more closely:

In modern law, this principle is still accepted in limited form; the rights are divided into air rights above and subsurface rights below. Property title includes to the space immediately above and below the ground (Emphasis mine) – preventing overhanging parts of neighboring buildings – but do not have rights to control flights far above the ground or in space. In dense urban areas, air rights may be transferable (see transferable development rights) to allow construction of new buildings over existing buildings.

The FAA says that you do not own airspace. It's for everyone to use and they manage it. I need to look this up, but I believe the modern interpretation is that it ends just a bit above all the structures on your property. Above that is uncontrolled airspace up to 400 feet for drones and such, which airplanes normally stay out of unless they are landing. Above that is controlled by the FAA and they will actively keep you from using it unless you have a license or a legal waiver in one of their rules, for instance, model rocketry is given a limited waiver for the size of the rocket and how much propellant it has... this is rule 14 CFR part 101. This rule also applies to kites and moored balloons.

Please educate yourself - it's quite complicated.

And again, the stuff about owning the moon because it's above your property is ridiculous... the moon is in orbit and goes all the way around the earth, even as the earth rotates underneath it, so the moon is not above one spot on earth continuously. There would be no way to determine who would own it.

Our legal system operates on precedent. If you were to interpret the precedents of old laws on homesteading or mine claims, you can't just "claim" a piece of land anyway. You have to show up, put your feet on it, stake it out and measure it and put the survey on a map, file it with the local government and have the claim be recognized and validated. And that's not all, you have to make some improvement on the land in order for the claim to be valid. You can live on it, plant crops and farm it, mine it, or any number of things. But you have to do something other than just wave your hand at the moon and say "it's all mine" like a four-year-old. It doesn't work that way.

[–] 0 pt

You only own up to the heavens. It doesn't say you own the heavens. One would have to determine where heaven starts.

[–] 4 pts

As the moon passes overhead you own some of that too. 1 acre on earth becomes 1000 acres on the moon because the earth isn't flat.

[–] 2 pts

The only real consequence of flat vs round earth: how much moon you own when it passes over. Insightful.

[–] [deleted] 3 pts

It's no different than living in a HOA community. You "own" the property but it's regulated by someone else.

[–] [deleted] 2 pts

This is the #1 reason I declined to buy my parent's house when they sold it. First offered it to me (the only one of their offspring capable of buying it) before putting it on the market.

HOA is bullshit. I can't fathom why anyone would want this configuration. B-b-buh the neighbor might paint his house UGLY!!! EWWWW! So the fuck what. It's their fucking house. If they want a purple door and a boat in their driveway and a shed in their backyard, that should be nobody else's business, period.

[–] 1 pt

As a non American, what is HOA?

"Homeowner's Association"

Basically what happens is some dude's wife gets elected to drive around snooping at everyone's property, noting "violations." These "violations" can range from grass too tall, neglecting the paint or siding on your house, building a shed in your backyard, owning a boat and keeping it in your driveway... the list goes on and on. In order to move into a particular neighborhood that has an HOA, you have to sign and agree to this bullshit. Or don't move there. Those people are super serious about their HOA rules. Because you signed the HOA, if you violate and don't fix or pay fees... you lose your house. It's in the agreement.

Oh, there was a $500 annual fee for my parent's HOA agreement. Total scam.

[–] 0 pt (edited )

Eh, for a different perspective, I live on a property that has one. I used to say that I'd never do it, but the property that I wanted had an existing HOA, and I decided I'd rather buy that property than look elsewhere.

The area governed by the association is one street. Maybe 25 properties? One house per property. You can build, like, a shed on your property, but you can't build another house (in addition to the HOA, the city has regulations; these are roughly 1/2 acre properties). The people in the association are my neighbors. I see them at barbeques, and once a quarter we have a meeting. If someone wants to make a change that is visible basically from the street, they have to approve that change via a majority vote of the others (at said meeting). I haven't lived here that long, but I am told by older folks that in 25 years only one request has been denied. That said, for the example of painting your house pink -- yeah you probably can't.

Long term, I'd rather live in a freer place, but I'm not going to live here forever, so this is a good deal. In particular, when I sell it's likely the property value will not be negatively impacted by other people. Given that I live in a suburb of a large city, there's a limited amount of freedom to be had, anyways.

Renting? I guess. Financially, it's ownership. From a freedom perspective, you have a lot more than a renter but less than a, umm, freeholder.

One expense is that we own the road that goes between our houses and some of the surrounding property (including landscaping) that is held in common. When there are costs associated with the road, we have to share them equally. The city doesn't pay for that particular road, and we have to share the cost of maintaining the surrounding landscaping. This cost is miniscule compared to the egregious taxes leveled by the city, county, and state, so it's kind of like a tiny tax.

It's worth noting that whether or not you have an HOA, many cities have equally stringent regulations as far as maintaining your property and telling you what you can't do with it. More rural areas tend to have fewer. The difference is if you get in an argument with the city you're fighting the government. There was just a story on the news about San Francisco, and a guy with 6 figure fines for parking cars on his property, which a court ruled was just. Freedom comes from lack of other people and distance from them. If they are close by they will find a way to be up in your shit.

[–] 1 pt

A lot of people feel like it's protecting their investment. If your parents had no HOA and a particularly egregious neighbor, it might have been hard to sell the house.

The egregiousness depends on how much you can trust your neighbors (and to an extent how many there are).

Obviously if you're not interested then great, you don't sign up. The mess comes when people sign up thinking it's going to be reasonable and then the HOAs do dumb shit. But I usually hear about that in these giant developments and/or condo complexes where they have ridiculous levels of control

[–] 0 pt

Someone in the comments on YT explained it a little better.

Basically you own up to the point in the air that you can reasonably use. Above that it's right of way.

The guy with the chickens in the case he references had special grievance because the activity above his property (armed forces flights) was causing damage down on the ground below (the death of those poor chickens).

[–] 0 pt

You need an allodial title.