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[–] 19 pts

They all produced something and extended credit to the fellow towns folk that they could trust. Everything breaks down when you have to depend on a (((third party))) for credit. That third party claims interest on every transaction, so when the money got back to the hotel it would only be $40 dollars and problems would occur. Credit and fiat currency isn't the problem, interest is.

In a proper barter system I go to a mechanic and get my tractor fixed in exchange for giving the mechanic some amount of food at harvest time. As long as we trust each other, everyone's labor is converted into useful outcomes. Break down that trust with things like illegal immigration and forced hiring of unqualified "minorities". Now you can't trust anyone and must depend on a third party that takes it's pound of flesh out of every transaction.

[–] 5 pts (edited )

What do you mean no one produced nothing and no one earned anything? This is pure stupidity. It's right there in the fucking story:

  • The butcher produced meat for the hotelier
  • The pig farmer produced a pig for the butcher
  • The feed supplier produced feed for the pig farmer
  • The prostitute provided sex to the feed supplier
  • The hotel owner provided a room to the prostitute

Money is simply a system of value, and nothing else. All this story "proves" is that everyone's goods and services they had provided to each other was of equal value.

Please leave economics to the professionals.

[–] 5 pts

Hotel owner is out the 50 bucks the hooker paid him.

[–] [deleted] 3 pts

But he was "relieved" of his $50 debt from the butcher.

[–] 3 pts

Ah true, so I guess it's a wash for everyone.

[–] [deleted] 3 pts (edited )

After thinking about this for a bit, you were somewhat correct, at least in the sense that the hotel owner would get shafted.

I will have to make some assumptions to explain. In our system, there would be taxes on every transaction. Let's assume the tax is 10% for ease of things. Let's also believe that hookers pay taxes and provide legit transactions.

The hotel owner would pay $45.45 to the butcher and $4.55 to taxes. The butcher would pay $41.32 to the pig farmer and $4.13 in taxes. The pig farmer would pay $37.56 to the feed owner and $3.76 in taxes. The feed owner would pay $34.14 to the hooker and $3.42 in taxes. And finally, The hooker would pay $31.04 to the hotel owner and $3.10 to taxes.

All of them would still be in debt.

In reverse order: The hooker would still owe $18.96 to the Hotel owner The feed store owner would still owe $15.86 to the Hooker The pig farmer would still owe $12.44 to the feed store owner. The butcher would still owe $8.68 to the pig farmer And finally, the Hotel owner would still owe $4.55 to the butcher + $18.96 to the traveler.

The hotel owner lost $23.51 on the deal.

[–] 1 pt

Technically he stole the 50 from the visitor.

[–] 4 pts

The hooker would have bought some crack, thus collapsing the chain

[–] 2 pts

unless the crack was sold by the hotel owner... :D

[–] 2 pts

That has literally nothing to do with "fake fiat currency" and is entirely (((debt))) caused.

[–] 2 pts

Debts paid with stolen money.

[–] 1 pt

No, that's how debt works.

Replace the $50 bill with two silver coins (real money) and the point of the story remains intact.

[–] 1 pt

This is not an example of fiat currency. This is an example of accounting / basic math. Everyone in this scenario is both owed and owes the same amount. Of course it all cancels out.

A fiat currency example would be if the hotel owner were lending money and making interest off the contents of the safe that were not his.

[–] 1 pt

if it had been a gold coin, the story would be the same.

[–] 0 pt

Reality is far worse. It goes up the chain 2 or 3 levels and stops at a central bank. It does not get passed around like in the story.

If this story is far prettier than reality.