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[–] • 6 pts

No, they don't store electricity. They generate electricity by means of a chemical reaction.

[–] • 5 pts

So recharging a battery involves draining the spent chemicals and pouring in new fresh ones?

[–] • 0 pt

You can do it that way in batteries that let you replace the electrolyte.

[–] • 0 pt

you use electricity to reverse the chemical reaction, then the chemical reaction can repeat itself. Thats all recharging is doing.

[–] • 2 pts

Which in essence is "storing" the electricity.

One could say the same about storing data in a computer, when it involves basically changing the state of already existing bits.

If we were overly technical, you could also say that electricity doesn't flow through wires, but rather say that electrons "push" each other around to generate electricity.

[–] • 0 pt

You arent storing electricity though you are converting it into chemical energy that gets converted back into electrical energy. It would be the same as using electricity to lift a weight up high then using the weight of that rock later to turn a generator.

If that counts as storing electricity then anything that can create electricity cught to be considered storing it. its valuable to understand how this works because you cant put electricity in a jar like people seem to think, you can use it to create chemical reactions that store energy though.

[–] • 0 pt

Good example with "storing" electricity by lifting a weight then later letting it fall and "releasing" the electricity.

I think the disconnect comes from the two views: how it's used, and how it works inside. Even "chemical" energy is just an abstraction for something more fundamental involving quantum states. The energy is being stored by a reconfiguration of the quantum states. From the outside, though, it's a sealed object with two terminals that you either send a current into, or draw from. From the outside it does effectively store electric energy and give it back.

[–] • 2 pts

Chemical energy is stored in a battery.

Capacitors store electrostatic energy.

Both can release/create electricity.

[–] • 0 pt

Not true. Haven't you ever put your car battery on a charger?

[–] • 0 pt

Meh.

Overly complex fuel tanks that return the electricity produced elsewhere

[–] • 1 pt

For most batteries you see nowadays this is true. Even non-rechargeables require electricity or other energy input to refine the electrodes used.

[–] • 0 pt

We use a small solar panel to run a game camera.

[–] • 1 pt

Article needs to put these levels into context.

So in total, you dig up an incredible amount of material for just a single EV battery.

So what? How does this destroy the environment.

Sometimes I fart when I work out, does this mean I shouldn't work out because it hurts the environment?

[–] • 1 pt

This is how it destroys the planet: https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-lithium-fields-reveal-the-dark-side-of-our-electric-future

These strip mines are incredibly destructive. Also, at the end of their life they need to be disposed of or recycled. That is another entire rabbit hole to go down.

[–] • 0 pt

That link only makes a subjective statement that it "can" hurt the soil / water but (1) doesn't go into any detail about the scale, severity, time to recover, ongoing containment effort, etc. And (2) doesn't make any attempt to back its claim up other than link to a PDF that does the same fucking thing, just further referencing a defunct website.

We might as well panick about the toxins used to make paint or to bleach paper to make it pretty white.

TL;DR: these articles are nothing but FUD.

[–] • 0 pt

A picture says a thousand words. Did you look at the pictures? Do like 2 minutes of research on lithium mines and you will see the obvious impact on the planet. Or just keep acting like you're so smart and you know everything and whatever.

[–] • 1 pt

Why use EV batteries when drilling for oil and natural gas is already a thing?

[–] • 0 pt

Regenerative braking. Gas guzzlers waste the kinetic energy as heat through friction when decelerating, while EVs convert a lot of it back into electrical energy to store back in the battery for the next time they accelerate.

[–] • 1 pt

Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?

Going Green

A pleasant euphemism that conjures up all kinds of mental images and allows people to virtue signal.

[–] • 1 pt (edited )

Maybe we could use dead humans as a source of energy. Decomp creates heat.

[–] • 0 pt

I have some that should work fine.

[–] • 0 pt

Batteries Don’t Make Electricity, They Store Electricity Produced Elsewhere

And that's precisely their advantage. They can store energy produced by gasoline, propane, Diesel, coal, hydroelectric, nuclear, wind, solar, biodiesel, or just about any other fuel. Gasoline powered cars are limited to energy produced by gasoline.

[–] • 1 pt

People here are not arguing in good faith. They are being disingenuous and cherry picking information in order to make themselves feel like they've won the argument. The reality is that data speaks for itself.

I drive an electric car and it's among the best things I've ever put money into.

Talking point: "You have to strip mine the earth. Underage miners are being exploited in Africa. Then the old battery is an environmental nightmare."

Truth: Car battery recycling exists. It's been done for hybrids for a long time. And now it is beginning to be done for the first generation electric vehicles. My car just turned 9 years old and it was due for a battery. I bought one from a wrecked car that was 2 months old and basically brand new. My old battery was recycled. The Tesla Gigafactory has just tested making new batteries from the recycled old battery material and they have made the first 100% recycled batteries in the world. That's right... no more mining.

Talking point: "The grid can't handle everyone plugging in their cars. The power is coming from somewhere else. Coal plants! It's dirtier than just burning gasoline anyway."

Truth: I can choose where to buy my electricity and I buy from only renewable sources. Hydroelectric and wind and solar. Even if I didn't have this choice, let's take a look at the average kilowatt of power produced in the USA: about 2/3 from coal and other non-renewables, and about 1/3 from renewables. That means, all things being the same, it's 1/3 better than just using 100% non-renewable gasoline in your engine. But wait! There is more math. The average gasoline powered car has a thermal efficiency of 40%. That means that 60% of the energy is wasted as heat and 40% goes toward turning the wheels. But, even if all we had for electricity was produced at a power plant with non-renewable fuels, they are about 80% efficient. That means that we burn less fuel to go the same amount of miles. My car has an equivalent 100 mpg if you do the math and convert kilowatt-hours into gallons of gas. It costs me $5.20 to drive 216 miles, including the depreciation and wear and tear on the battery over its lifetime. That is about 2.5 cents per mile. The average car is more like 40 cents per mile or more. And, you have options when charging your car. You can charge at home, you can charge from a slow charger in a parking garage at work, you can charge from a fast charger at a shopping center. My home charger has a programmable capability to only charge overnight when the peak usage of electricity is past. So I do not strain the grid in any way. Flexible recharging is adaptable.

Talking point: "Electric cars suck. They are gutless. I want my V-8! What if you run out of charge on the side of the road?"

Truth: My electric car will blow the doors off of your V-8. It's very fast. When I first got it, people wanted to race me, revving up their motors at stoplights. They don't do that any more. I always win. Always. And, what about running out of charge? I charge at home overnight. The car starts out each day with a fresh charge. If I plan to drive more than 200 miles in a day, I can look on an app and see where the fast chargers are, and if there is a wait to use them. You drive 200 miles, hook up to a fast charger, and go stretch your legs for 20 min. Then you drive another 200 miles. Usually they are located in the parking lots of shopping centers, so this is convenient if you want to duck into the store and get a bag of groceries.

When you engage these talking points with truth, people suddenly stop responding. lol

[–] • 0 pt

How are you charged and pay at those parking lot stations?

[–] • 1 pt

You're referring to fast chargers in public places? Those are mostly Level 2 and Level 3.

So the car comes with a Level 1 charger which plugs into a regular 110V plug at home. It's slow. With a 62kWh battery, it takes 36 hours to charge from 0 to 100%.

You can upgrade to a 220V Level 2 charger at home. It uses the same plug as an electric clothes dryer. It will charge in 14 hours. You also have the option to use these in public places, such as in shopping centers and in front of our electric power company, lol.

Level 3 chargers are super fast. They use 480V industrial power supplies and charge at hundreds of amps. It will charge in 20 minutes. This is one of those that you would only find in a public place. Normal houses do not have this kind of power available.

The chargers you see in public are going to have a brand name. You subscribe to the brand name, give them your credit card info, and they set up an account for you. You might see a brand name such as Blink. So you need a Blink account. Then you just drive right up to the charger, plug in, and give it your login credentials (or insert your card into a slot) and it will start to charge. You can go for a walk for 20 minutes, or go shopping or get something to eat. Some of these will send you a text or whatever when you're car is full.

You need a separate account for each name brand. For instance, if you are at a Tesla charger, you need a Tesla account. It's like a gas station credit card: Chevron will not work at an Arco station.

There are some community based charger chains, that might be set up by your local power company or your state or municipality. They also have a separate account.

So depending on how much long distance driving you do, you might have 2-3 different accounts. They auto-debit from your debit account or credit card once a month.

It should be noted that there are 3 different standards for the type of charger plug. So a Level 1 / Level 2 cannot use a Level 3 cord. My car has both a Level 1 / Level 2 socket and a Level 3. Tesla's chargers are proprietary (and FAST) but they are incompatible with other types of cars. Adapters to go between these types are just coming on the market, so I could plug my non-Tesla car into a Tesla charger if I made an account. It got a little complicated and now it is getting easier with the advent of the adapters.

The pricing varies widely. I can pay $5.00 at home to plug in to the grid, or I can go to a fast charger and pay twice that much. Convenience costs money.

[–] • 0 pt

i dont give a fuck if niglets die mining my lithium or if windmills or solar ever make back the energy it took to produce them. i just care about being off the homoglobo grid and riding out the hellscape the western world is being forced into. fuck the earth, it will heal. my blood however shall persevere.

[–] • 0 pt

If you want to get completely off the grid, get an electric truck such as a Ford Lightning or a Rivian and a whole bunch of solar panels. Boom, done. You'll never go to a gas station again.

[–] • 0 pt

Sure they do, just like food comes from the store - DUH!