>My “own” Saints certainly do not affirm the sort of Papal Supremacy current today. The truth of the primacy of Peter is equally true today as it was at the beginning. Doctrines do not change, you know this. They are, however, clarified over time. The teachings of Vatican I are an example of this, but in no way was the essence of Peter's primacy spoken of by the early saints *changed* by any doctrinal statements made before or after the Great Schism. >There’s this entire vast divergence of the very character of the Saints of the two Communions following the last half of the Eleventh Century. I will interpret this charitably and assume you are not trying to diminish the sanctity of the Western saints following AD 1054, because I will point out that St. Thomas Aquinas lived his entire life after the Schism, as did St. Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, and St. Robert Bellarmine. The holiness of these saints is without question, and their character is defined principally by just that: holiness. >I don’t claim that every church that tacks “Orthodox” on the name is actually the Body of Christ. So which one is, and by what authority do you determine which churches are and which churches are not Orthodox? You're getting to the rub of the whole point. In terms of fundamentals, we *all* agree with what the Apostles believed. But when contemporary moral issues require the *application* of tradition, we find that the Eastern churches are dead, while the Roman Church is living. The East has discussed possibilities for calling a council, but they never pan out, or accomplish anything productive, because the East lacks precisely what gave the Seven Councils their charism - that is, Peter. >You, by contrast, put your faith in the Roman Magisterium. Apparently, the one thing needed, is to be in Communion with the Bishop of Rome. At some point, *you* had to decide that. I'm not saying that individual choices and judgments don't have to be made. What I'm saying is that the only end point that does not itself require some personal judgment is Roman Catholicism. Under Protestantism we have each believer making these judgements about the faith based on what they read in Scripture, or based on what their layperson "pastor" has to say; in the Orthodox churches, the personal judgment has tradition to lean on, but *because* of the chaos that has resulted from abandoning the See of Peter, the faithful are ultimately left to make these judgments for themselves anyway - go with what this church says, or what this church says; whatever your heart tells you. Yes, I have to discern that the Roman Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church established by our Lord Jesus Christ - but with this discernment, I no longer must tempt my pride into judging what is moral, what is of the faith, what the nature of the sacraments are, etc. - I recognize that it is for the Church alone to decide these things, and at no point is my choosing between one take or another necessary or even licit. *That* is the difference. And I have not made up this narrative; I merely echo what an ex-Orthodox, Catholic man named Timothy Flanders has to say. I linked to one of his articles already; [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtFXBDllso4) is a video form of the same if you prefer. I would appreciate a response to his points if you really disagree with my premise here. >St. Peter, here, serves as a type for all the Church. By giving the keys to St. Peter, Christ gave the power to bind-and-loose to The Church. The idea that Rome somehow interprets this to mean that the Pope has this power, is absurd to us. So Christ built His Church on the rock, which itself is just a type of the Church? That seems like a conflation of analogies to me; it doesn't mesh. What you call "absurd" is also what the saints, East and West, believed. I submit in humility to their teachings; this is my point about the Roman Catholic Church saving the faithful form the temptation to pride and depending on their own opinions. >But that’s not who I’m referring to as The Church. The Church is all right-believing men and women, attached to a right-believing Bishop with Apostolic Succession. "Right-believing" - you don't seem to appreciate how much of a problem this language is given that the Church is (supposedly!) still alive. You can't just rely on reference to the Nicene Creed and the teachings of the Seven Councils to determine what the fullness of the faith comprises. The *reason* the Church has to be alive, not dead, is because the faithful flock that the Church is tasked with feeding *is alive*, and lives *within time*. The Nicene Creed says nothing to say about contraception, the Seven Councils say nothing about *in vitro* fertilization, nor (unsurprisingly) do any of the early century saints have anything to say about intercommunion with Protestants! "Oh, well the truth on these matters can easily be gleaned from what was already taught in the Seven Councils", says the Orthodox. Oh can they? Then why do all the several Orthodox church**es** say so many different things on these issues? What constitutes "right-believing" in this sense, and *how do you know?* *This* is the level of decision-making that, ultimately, falls back on the individual pride of the person. "Right-belief" is suddenly what sounds best *to you* - what other option do you have? Whereas in my case, I submit to the Magisterial teaching of the Church, *which is still alive and teaching to this day, long after the close of the last of the Seven Councils*. Forgive me if I sound heated. I know I sounded heated responding to @Chiro earlier today. But this is such a subtle, but *important* issue, that I just can't leave the two of you, whom I care about, to face the consequences of this error. Do you, KOWA, really want to go to face your judgment trusting in *yourself* to have determined what "right-belief" constitutes? My point is that, if the Church exists at all, it must be living, and maintain the same teaching power it had during the time of the Seven Councils. *Only the Roman Catholic Church offers this, because only the Roman Catholic Church has the Pope*. I do not intend to go to my judgment having depended on my pride, or ego, or intuition, to "guess" which Church teaches "right-belief" on all matters relevant to my salvation - and avoidance of mortal sin happens to be relevant to that end. I am able to trust in the Magisterium of my living Church, and I pray that you will come to do the same.