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They are not very common in First Aid Kits, so this is why I'm wondering if they have proven themselves to be useful in the field.

I would use them as means to control heavy bleeding from gunshots or stab wounds.

They are not very common in First Aid Kits, so this is why I'm wondering if they have proven themselves to be useful in the field. I would use them as means to control heavy bleeding from gunshots or stab wounds.

(post is archived)

[–] • 5 pts

Old medic chiming in here. Not a fan of hemostatics. Gotta get em right on the source of bleed, proximal placement ain't gonna cut it (as it were). The HS granules in particular are less than ideal. Gotta clean the little clot monsters out of the wound before properly dressing it since leaving them milling about opens a lovely path for infection. Clots and tissue damage are additional legit concerns. HS gauze is a marginally better option, but tried and true direct pressure/pressure dressings are preferable. And if tourniquets need to be deployed, shit has gotten ridiculously real.

[–] • 1 pt

That's the kind of info I'm looking for. My main issue was if they are so great, why are they not readily available in all standard first aid kits?

I'm trained in military first aid (not medic or CLS), and have gotten myself the highest level of civilian First Aid Training available. The reason I'm asking this question and considering this powder and gauzes is because I'm trying to see how I could improve my first aid setup mainly for abdomen stab wounds, as getting shot is till unlikely in Europe. I wanted to find an alternative to wound packing as I'm not trained in it and will not find training available where I am.

So this is my current setup for stab wounds to abdomen:

  1. Saline solution to wash the wound and minimize chances of infection

  2. Trauma bandages with a hard insert that improves the ability to apply pressure

  3. Get them to the hospital ASAP or wait for ambulance if it's on the way

Do you think it would be necessary to disinfect the wound with anything more than saline solution? My idea is to focus on stopping the bleeding and getting them to hospital, and let the hospital focus on infection control. The sooner I get them there with minimum blood loss, the better, but I would be more than willing to adjust my idea based on advice from someone like you who has more knowledge on the topic.

I know that in cases of knife still being in the wound it should not be removed, and in case of evisceration the guts should be carefully collected and gently covered with sterile bandages with the idea to get them to hospital ASAP since there is not much you can do in the field.

Also, for chest stab/shot wounds I have chest seals, but have recently seen that there are also 'vented' and 'unvented' options (mine are unvented). For which purpose would vented chest seals be for? They were never mentioned in any of the trainings I had, in military for basic first aid only unvented were used, I'm not sure if medics had both in their kits.

Also any additional advice or equipment recommendations for the purpose of controlling heavy bleeding abdomen wounds or anything in general would be greatly appreciated.

[–] • 3 pts

Celox type hemostatics are specifically contraindicated for abdominal, thoracic and open skull trauma. Verboten. No bueno. Bad news. The 2ndary dangers are too great in those specific bodily neighborhoods. But now we get into the weeds. Hemostatics come in many forms. Natural polymers: collagen, cellulose, chitin..(just hope the patient doesn't have a shell fish allergy) Various synthetic polymers. Metal (usually aluminum or silver) based agents. There may be certain exogenous hemostatics that are ok for ab wounds in the field, but if so, they have been implemented after my time. But Celox is not one of them

Israeli (gasp!) bandages should be in every serious stop-the-bleed kit. They are essentially and pre-fab pressure dressing and are even vac packed to save space. Gauze, chest seals abdominal bandages and the mighty T (tourniquets), too. And, of course, the even mightier T to tie it all together: Training. All the cool guy gear in the world is worth fuck all unless effectively deployed and applied.

[–] • 1 pt

Yeah, I think I'll stay away from any hemostatics, thanks for sharing all the info.

Believe it or not, "Israel" bandage was invented and used in Yugoslavia and was a lot better that what kikes are trying to pass as pissrael invention now. They never made anything in their lives, they just know how to steal and make shitty copies.

[–] • 3 pts

I've read from soldiers that you want the hemostat impregnated gauze, not the granules themselves. The granules can get into the bloodstream and cause blood clots. The gauze clots it on the surface.

Just what I read though. No actual usage experience.

[–] • 1 pt

That does sound like a legitimate concer when you think about it. Is this the Kaolin gauze?

[–] • 2 pts

Yep. I think that's what Quickclot is. Quickclot bandage and pressure.

[–] • 3 pts

I see irony in your username and this question. However, I do not have the answer you are looking for. I am sure we have some people here that know far better than I do and better than a random search.

[–] • 10 pts

I'm starting a new business. Stab em, then sell em the powder at 500% price markup. Got the idea from this happy bagel salesman.

[–] • 4 pts

Got the idea from this happy bagel salesman.

I've seen that guy. He's always moving his hands like he's trying to get dough off of them so I think he must be a baker as well as a salesman. Funny thing is that he has a fear of ovens so that's kind of unfortunate for a baker.

[–] • 1 pt

That's very clever.

Rubs hands intensely

[–] • 1 pt

I'm a little late to your party here, but you know how I just love throwing my 2 cents around. Here is my EMT take on it.

I pretty much agree with what others have said but not entirely. The reason you don't see celox in most 1st aid kits is because it is expensive and it burns when you use it.

My advice, Get some. Get a few packages. That shit works great. Yea, there are other concerns with it but that is not your problem. Your goal is to stop the bleeding and get the patient to a higher level of care where they can fix the secondary problems.

Wound packing is great but only works on muscle tissue. You can't pack an abdominal or chest wound (I suppose a Pectoral wound could be packed but not if it goes into the chest cavity.) You also cannot use any type of hemostatic on abdominal wounds. The problem there is internal bleeding, even direct pressure does very little. The solution to that problem is Diesel Therapy. Get them to a trauma center ASAP.

Hemostatic agents also don't work well on Arterial bleeding. If the blood is Spurting out bright red blood and lots of it, put on a Tourniquet. Just do it, if they get to the hospital within about 4 hours there won't be lasting tissue damage and they will still be alive. If the blood is more oozing or just running out then it is probably a veinous bleed and direct pressure will usually work, but in an emergency situation where you don't have time to sit around for 5 or 10 minutes holding pressure you just open up the wound, dump a pack of celox in there and close that shit up and wrap it tight. Don't worry about wound cleaning or shit like that. Stopping bleeding is the very most important part of the equation.

You're right about not removing impaling objects. If it's in, leave it in. (knives, bullets, rebar, pens and pencils) If it's out, leave it out. (guts, eyeballs, brain matter, bones)

Israeli bandages are great, Cat-T tourniquets are great. Swat T sucks.

Oh yea, and get a SAM splint.

As far as chest seals go, I like the vented. When air builds up in the chest it will take up room that the lungs need to expand into. With a vented seal you can let that pressure out and it allows the lungs to expand and makes breathing a whole bunch easier.

You should also put Naloxone and EPI in your kit.

Anyway, I'm sure I've only scratched the surface but that's what I've got for now, I'm late for work. lol

[–] • 1 pt

Thanks for taking time to share all that info. Getting them into the emergency room ASAP is definitely major part of the plan. I might end up getting some Celox just to keep it handy in case of veinous bleed that could get out of control, but I will likely avoid using it on abdomen in case of deep wounds.

How badly does it burn? Asking for a friend. That I will use it on in case he gets a minor cut,

I have most other stuff you mentioned, but you basically need to have EMT training if you want to be able to get your hands on Naloxone and EPI pen without prescription where I am.

[–] • 1 pt

It burns, I don't think it's that bad but others have told me it was worse than they expected. It's good stuff for heavy veinous bleeding for sure but for minor cuts direct pressure usually does the trick. Do not use is on abdominal wounds that go all the way through the skin. You don't want that shit in the abdominal cavity. Super glue is also handy in your kit. I have put together plenty of cuts with that shit (also not good for abdominal wounds). Naloxone should be handed out for free, fucking junkies everywhere and even innocent people coming into contact with nasty shit inadvertently.

[–] • 1 pt

from a economic angle, you might be better off buying tampons. they for a bullet and stab wound they are excellent because they soak up blood and stay in place. can also cause problems though by cotton fever.