The folly of the scientific method is its incessant need to prove something can't be disproved. How tiresome...

The scientific method is actually a method to try and disprove things, or reject that which is unlikely. It indeed is tiresome, but this is the nature of truth seeking. Please keep in mind I was merely trying to bring tangibility to the concept the OP initiated. One can find analogies and agreement using such methods.

I used the words scientific, but I mean something far deeper and suspect that you've over simplified what I was trying to get it. This is always an issue and why we must seek truth iteratively as one sharpens a blade. Consider a way to describe this, conversational calibration.

Gnosis is what you seek. Gnosis reveals the true barometer for truth.

I think we might be travelling a similar path. Gnosis is truth seeking. What is true? I mean universal truth. This leads me to the next point.

As the story goes, the one you call "Jesus" traveled quite a bit during this time, seeking answers to the questions he had. As you know, he found them.

I really like this statement, let me go further. As it says in the new testament. "Jesus is Truth", "Follow me, I am the way" and for example in John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with GodLogos, and the Word was GodLogos.

I may be crazy but isn't the following Logos indeed just the search for truth? Isn't following "the way" indeed what Gnosticism really is? Isn't Jesus an allegory of one that follows Logos?

It's true the Catholic church doesn't want one to think this. Quite literally seems like a psyop to me. I think we're in agreement about that.

I also see the "evolutionary" subversion in some of the Mystery Schools, which I also think is a psyop. Truth requires us to understand what is, so we can be part of nature rather than fight it. Kind of like finding the resonant signature of what is so we can ride it. Like, put simply, shaking your legs in a bath tub at just the right frequency to cause waves with ease.

I don't mean to be so mystical, but I only hope to be both a student and a messenger of Truth. This is somewhat of a new awareness for me as I was a cog in the works until recently. I have read countless books recently, but have not joined any groups for help. I have come to my understanding on my own and it's also very new for me to try and describe such things.

Reread what I've posted here after reading Thomas, Judas, Enoch, Mary, etc.

Very good stuff. I have recently come across those. So much has been hidden from us. So much subversion.

Of all the big "conspiracy theories" out there and things (((they))) would be hiding isn't just in those books but I think is a great deal simpler. The secret tech is to hide from us what we are. That we are animals with a brain. If we ignore either part we lose control. If we think our brain can get us out of anything we haven't tried quitting nicotine, for example. This seems to be the nature of what psychopaths do when toying with their underlings for control and power.

But, like all things, truth is indeed what we seek ... but never is it what we think it is when we find it.

The truth that lies within is quite scary when it arrives during moments of self reflection and quieting of the mind. It also opens our minds to the fact that what actually exists is far more than we can ever perceive by natural or artificial means. I view observable reality as only a reflection of the greater existence, or more accurately a time delay, of the real thing, since we cannot experience "now" with our senses. Quantum entanglement can tie us to any other point, or all points, at the same moment. Is it possible that this can happen biologically? I have a cousin that saw his mother when she died. She was hundreds of miles away. When he get the call minutes later he got serious chills. This may have been an instance of spontaneous entanglement between two beings, one stopping by for one last time. I don't believe in ghosts. But, I do believe the search for truth needs to take us wherever it leads.

Thank you Frosty. I look forward to any comments. It's a great discussion you've brewed up and you did a very thoughtful writeup worth exploring.

I appreciate some of what you're saying, but I can also tell I haven't conveyed what my true meaning is and so some of the responses I'm getting are misaligned. I am merely trying to pull the argument from meta-physical to tangible and see if it applies. I'm not advocating people become only rational either. I'm merely presenting a side, which is necessary, but admittedly perhaps not fully sufficient.

Thats the trouble with science, the only language it really has for defining the universe is mathematics and thats about it. The universe doesn't seem to speak math, english or any other tongue.

There are many issues with this. Every theory has trouble, yes. The point of the scientific method is to rationally test against hypothesis, rejecting that which is unlikely. Science doesn't speak math, but yes math is a tool. So are many other tools, such as logical reasoning, among other things. The scientific method is one of many limited methods, which can yield rational fruit, but like many ideas is misunderstood by most (it took me years in academia to realize this).

The issue with esoteric questions about concepts of "good" and "evil" and "god' or "the devil" etc, is there are too many disconnections from our purview. One can use the scientific method, however it's very easy for someone who doesn't know what the scientific method actually is to find problems. There are no perfect methods. Statements like "The universe is super complicated therefore rudimentary methods won't work" doesn't cut it, as it isn't an argument and doesn't provide tangible value. I think you're missing the point I was attempting to make (and keep in mind I realize I didn't explain it perfectly either, this shit is hard to explain).

What I was proposing was merely instead of going out into the distance and picking some boogeyman to correlate or "prove" but instead start locally and test against a testable, tangible, simple hypothesis. What is the tangible hypothesis I am proposing? That psychopaths run the world and most of us don't realize what a psychopath is, so we're susceptible to their subversion and this is why we let them. This correlates very well with world events ... so what value is there in talking about far away notions like god, and evil and the devil and the Illuminati or whatever you would call it? The thing to take from the scientific method is to start local and creep outwards to construct a theory. Reaching far away and correlating to a theory is pseudo-science and isn't actually fact based. Saying "demons" or "inter-dimensional forces" isn't measurable and really, without having inter-dimensional understanding wont' help us pull the levers to get us to a more moral, virtuous place.

Us hoomins are not rational creatures, we are a difficult and ornery lot, here is a significant number of who will act against their own interests for reasons of their own. We are capable of rationalising and thats about it.

This is one of the greatest realizations I've had myself. We are both animals (carnal, irrational) and have brains (cognitive, rational). We have to embrace both or we won't be able to understand either. So, I'm not trying to be super formal, just trying to apply a formal, rational basis. It's a subset of the logical abilities we have but it needs to be kept simple. This is why I will only try to apply a theory that works and is measurable and testable. Esoteric forces are not a problem statement that is in my ability to explain, or find a way to alleviate what is going on.

Carnal human behavior on the other hand does work to both explain, and to understand how to alleviate. Really, the scientific method is highly misunderstood and if you go back to the ancient greek gnostics, you'll see something that resembles what I'm talking about. Modern science is broken, even in the physics realm. Anyway, in short consider we're in a way dropped into this world blind until we can see and if we make up ghosts we'll find them, even if they're not really there. Further, monopolists who control the media are pumping us full of bs to keep us from understanding our own nature and keep buying their enslavement.

As for the supernatural existing or not, thats a useless argument. It can't be proven or disproven and only exists to give some people something to argue about.

I agree and is touching on one of the points I wasn't so elegantly making. I'm not saying that I know what's going on outside my purview, just that there are simpler explanations that can allow us to wrench ourselves out of the subversive trap that has been placed before us. So, start in the rational place we have and creep outwards. By doing that, I've already found an explanation of world events without needing "good" and "evil". Recall my "wolf" and "sheep" analogies and recall what I was saying about making the sheep aware.

The explanation, in short, is that morality is shaped by our experiences and understanding of the situation we're in. We're not even aware if we, ourselves, are bad and are wired to merely survive. Some, who win in the game believe their winning is some kind of virtue and will fight to keep their status, while others are comfortable being part of the herd and don't even realize they're cattle to the subverters. For more interesting ideas of what I'm saying, see and .

Before I learned how to meditate, astral project and identify synchronicities, all I knew, was what the established church told me. When a person learns to quiet their minds and look inward, things present themselves that prove themselves. I would also argue that creation, life force, God, whatever, is neither good nor bad, but rather a product of intent. existence is molded by creation and were the ones who molds this reality. unfortunately, we live in a time where before we can develop ourselves more spiritually, we need to take out the trash that hates our spirit.