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613

I've also heard of the Assumption of Mary, but I didn't realize that was the belief she was taken body and soul into heaven. I guess the pope just decided this in the 1950s.

They also believed she never sinned, ever. Impossible. Only God is this infallible.

I've also heard of the Assumption of Mary, but I didn't realize that was the belief she was taken body and soul into heaven. I guess the pope just decided this in the 1950s. They also believed she never sinned, ever. Impossible. Only God is this infallible.
[–] • 7 pts

The Vatican has been infiltrated and taken over by the synagogue of satan.

Only Jesus Christ is our true King, Lord and Savior.

[–] • 3 pts

It's a shame. I find the history and tradition of the Church excellent in many ways. Then they have to do things like this and diminish it.

[–] • 4 pts

As a former Catholic now a Greek Orthodox Inquirer, I just want to clarify a few things, respectfully.

The belief that Mary remained a virgin is ancient. It goes back to the early Church Fathers and liturgy. Joseph was an old widower chosen to protect her. She had taken a vow of virginity while serving in the Temple. Once she hit puberty, she had to leave. That is why Joseph was chosen to guard her until she returned at menopause.

We don’t pray to Mary like we pray to God. We ask for her intercession, like asking a faithful friend to pray for us. That practice goes back to Genesis. Abraham prays on behalf of Sodom. The righteous plead for others all through Scripture. Same with pilgrimages. Jacob makes a vow to return to Bethel. People traveled to holy places long before Christ. This isn’t new.

Sola scriptura breaks down fast. If the Bible alone is enough, why are there 30,000 denominations all claiming the Holy Spirit while contradicting each other? That is not unity. Christ built one Church and gave authority to the Apostles. Scripture came from that Church. Tradition was first. The Bible was gathered and preserved through it. Orthodoxy never changed this. It just held on.

[–] • 3 pts

This is correct, and none of it has to do with the pope in 1950. For those of you following along that have the ability to think critically, please look into the Protoevangelion of James, the Suub Tum (one of the earliest recorded christian prayers outside of the canon of the New Testament), and the writings of Ignatius of Antioch, the shepherd of hermas, and the didache. These things all concretely date prior to Constatine and were widely used in the churches during the Roman persecution. Square them with your Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide positions. I would love to discuss them with anyone who is willing to have an honest dialogue.

[–] • 1 pt

Very well said! I just got caught up with the Whole Counsel of God by Father De Young - highly recommend it. It is verse by verse by Father De Young who speaks Greek, Hebrew and English. It was legitimately life changing and I do not mean that lightly. So I was giving Rock and Sand another listen. It goes into the history of the Protestant reformation, the schism of 1054 between the east and west, and the Orthodox view on all of it. Very informative and very matter of fact.

[–] • 2 pts

I listened to a youtube video awhile ago (so couldn't find it now) that mentioned how a Jewish woman could make a vow to remain a virgin for life, that even if married she would be allowed to keep her vow of a life long virgin if the husband consented to the vow. Women's vows are referred to generally in Numbers 30:3-6

[–] • 2 pts (edited )

Correct. At this time, consecrated virgins were very common. What really drew me to the EOC was their view on Israel. How they do not bend their knee to the jews and how they destroy the ethnostate of Satan that was founded by the Rothschilds in 1948. When they say Israel there, they’re saying the people of God. The church.

The Orthodox Church does not believe the modern state of Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophecy. In Scripture, Israel means the people of God, not a political country. Ancient Israel was a nation only about a century, a thousand years before Christ. The state founded in 1948 came nearly two thousand years after His death and has nothing to do with salvation history.

God’s promises were fulfilled in Christ. The Church is the true Israel, a continuation. Prophecy is fulfilled in the person of Jesus, not in the founding of a modern nation. There is no blessing for them.

The jews highjacked the Bible, stole the name and the evangelicals ran with it.

Fixed for a minor, but important correction.

[–] • 1 pt

I have to explore a bit more how and WHY some Christians believe they have to support everything Israel does. I don't agree with that but need to know how they came to that conclusion. I don't know where the start with research, but will just keep a look out for when info crosses my path.

[–] • 2 pts

Those beliefs about Mary have been around since the beginning. The Orthodox church believes them too. Her being a virgin is kind of her thing. The whole reason why Christ's birth was miraculous was due to her being a virgin.

[–] • 0 pt

Right, but they believe she went on to be a virgin for the rest of her life.

[–] • 3 pts

That's correct. Is that hard to believe? Lots of people do that today. They're called monastics, or in layman's terms nuns and monks. If Mary were around today she'd be considered a nun.

[–] • 0 pt

Nuns also don't get married. Poor Joseph.

[–] • 2 pts

Yes

[–] • 1 pt

I just don't see why this would matter. The miracle is the virgin birth. Her having sex with her husband doesn't diminish that in anyway.

[–] • 1 pt

Catholics are fucked up but I'm gonna skip this argument. 'The Virgin Mary' it's kinda in the name. If you really want to get wild we can discuss the various 'vestal virgins' that preceded her in Roman society.

[–] • 2 pts

I have heard some stuff about those vestal virgins. I guess you were set for life after your 30 year service. So it did have an upside.

[–] • 2 pts

kek, everyone likes virgins.... literally every religion

[–] • 1 pt

lol weird how no one wants sloppy seconds.

[–] • 1 pt

Conflating vestal virgins and the virgin Mary is like conflating trees and bushes. Vestal virgins were not "virgins" beyond their vow of celibacy and devotion to the goddess Vesta, which was for like thirty years. Before or after that time of service sexual purity wasn't considered.

Mother Mary was created and chose by God to be the vessel which brought forth Jesus. What does "virgin" Mary mean? I don't know.

[–] • 1 pt

Not conflating. Prizing. It should be hard out there for a hoe, trying to steal my granary and my dough

[–] • 1 pt

The “Hail Mary” prayer assumes that she is powerful enough to intercede on your behalf. But it’s unnecessary, you can pray to God or Jesus directly without an intermediary. I believe this is the main contention between modern Catholic doctrine and modern Protestants. At the time of the Reformation the huge rift was in how the sacraments were observed and which ones were really sacraments. Again, it was a manufactured split to divide us, and had the added benefit of allowing plunder of the abbeys and monasteries. The Reformation was an indicator that the church was wholly owned by non-Christians.

[–] • 3 pts

You never ask another person to pray for you?

[–] • 2 pts

The main rift during the reformation was the catholic church banning the people from reading the Holy Bible, (on pain of death). The church is and always was ‘the body of the believers in Christ’, it is His possession and no human is able to usurp His rule and dictate the rules.

[–] • 1 pt

The reformation certainly got quite a few things right, but it overshot or completely missed the mark in several other areas. The most glaring one was, they rejected the notion of indulgences, but then kept the Filioque Heresy.

[–] • 0 pt

The glaring error was rejecting one of the 10 commandments.

[–] • 0 pt

Are there actually 10 commandments in Exodus chapter 20?

[–] • 1 pt

Martin Luther was based as fuck. Why would the church, owned by jews, use a guy like Luther to divide the church when he noticed the hardest?